tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post4126571566287421425..comments2023-08-15T07:12:07.964-07:00Comments on Paulus Torchus: Milton up to Paradise LostPaul Mathershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15951893912611871578noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-58629733783927383962010-12-28T15:16:23.655-08:002010-12-28T15:16:23.655-08:00At one point in my life I distrusted myself at eve...At one point in my life I distrusted myself at every step. I still struggle with self-doubt. At this point, however, I've accepted that it's more my psychology than any real indication of where I stand before God, and that it's in fact not a sign of trust, faith, or obedience to stifle myself in the name of God. I don't know if this applies to you, but given the way you described it, I thought it might. My thought? Blow off the dust. (Or you could wipe it off with a damp cloth to save the dust floaties, but that's just not as poetically satisfying.) See to your art. Trust yourself. For the love of God, trust yourself. Commit art.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-5410145759505664412010-12-27T20:36:02.209-08:002010-12-27T20:36:02.209-08:00"Art is hiding in the corner, collecting dust..."Art is hiding in the corner, collecting dust over there behind all the media products, a quaint relic of a distrusted past."<br /><br />Wow, you have no idea how literally that statement describes my own world. Ask Paul. I have all my art supplies collected in a corner collecting dust, a quaint relic of when art was the chief form of expression of a side of me I no longer trust and so have left in the past....Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-18917854617350032402010-12-27T03:30:08.189-08:002010-12-27T03:30:08.189-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-60669078103863935032010-12-27T03:26:22.493-08:002010-12-27T03:26:22.493-08:00A society neurotically stuffing stuff in holes... ...A society neurotically stuffing stuff in holes... sums it up nicely.<br /><br />If my comments seem more corrosive these past couple days, I apologize. On my way to work this morning. New job anxieties which should subside within the next few days.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-65441014982741673582010-12-27T01:24:07.191-08:002010-12-27T01:24:07.191-08:00I think we may be in agreement here and I'm su...I think we may be in agreement here and I'm sure I could have been a bit clearer when I made my original statement. I might back it up a step and say that what I meant to characterize as nihilism is not so much a willful decision to believe in nothing on the part of the individuals whose psyche comprise the collected agreement of society, but rather the outpouring of some trends in the intellectual input of said individuals. <br /><br />I will include "entertainment" when I talk about "Art" here as the effects trickle down to those whose artistic intake rely entirely on the information nozzle pumped into every house like so many lab mice (apparently I am committing to riding a very high horse.) <br /><br />As Nietzschean (or, perhaps, more like Newton Minnow) as throwing around phrases like "the guardians of splendor" may sound, I definitely think that a society "wills" its self in an emergent way. The whole is the sum of the parts. <br /><br />Remove any sort of moral compass or aspirations toward a virtuous life and replace it with jocularity, mocking, and a race to the bottom of taboo breaking in the arts, and the result will result in an emergent nihilism. Natura abhorret a vacuo. Where there is no light, darkness will fill the space. Although, perhaps more concise may have been an emergent prevalence of an anarchic "eat, drink, and be merry" or, more to the point, "everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Which is not strictly nihilism although I would add that I'm not entirely sure I see a culture with convictions, but rather one shoving stuff down a very big hole in an attempt to fill it.Paul Mathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951893912611871578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-51072634509751881802010-12-26T11:35:57.971-08:002010-12-26T11:35:57.971-08:00From the limited philosophical vantage of my 2nd-h...From the limited philosophical vantage of my 2nd-hand couch it seems Art <em>had</em> become a religious substitute, beginning with the Romantics and progressing in an increasingly materialistic way through the modernists. To post-modernism all is a detached irony and an assortment of contrasting or complimentary playthings. The ironies of Milton, for example, strike me as anything but detached and playful. Today we have an increase in fundamentalism countered by an increase of pointlessness. We believe in our political and social ideologies and in our current running iPod playlist, but put feet to little else. Art is hiding in the corner, collecting dust over there behind all the media products, a quaint relic of a distrusted past.<br /><br />Or so it seems to me today.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-18535908291649933082010-12-26T09:43:32.508-08:002010-12-26T09:43:32.508-08:00I've come to the conclusion that those who are...I've come to the conclusion that those who are interested in Milton's poetry are also well-familiar with Blake's illustrations, another religious poet, deeply embedded in the British psyche 'And did those feet in ancient times.' <br /><br />Not so sure about your perception of an increasingly nihilistic society, people always believe in something even if it's false; Art itself has become a religion substitute in the 20th century, but more often it's just a heavily materialistic or self-centred belief system ever-growing in society. Must take another look at Milton to comment fully!Kevin Faulknerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15482886706239506749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-53168143486607307772010-12-23T19:08:05.137-08:002010-12-23T19:08:05.137-08:00Wow, Paul, I really enjoyed this!Wow, Paul, I really enjoyed this!Laurie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15840896949617719814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-40296882822764142242010-12-23T17:54:44.560-08:002010-12-23T17:54:44.560-08:00Odd -- this is the 2nd time a comment has disappea...Odd -- this is the 2nd time a comment has disappeared almost as soon as I posted it. I added a postscript to correct something and when the 2nd comment posted the first disappeared. Anyway, here was the comment with the unintended bit dropped:<br /><br />I had to leave right when I finished typing that... my thought wasn't done.<br /><br />I actually really admire the multiple levels on which his writing works, and how -- as with Areopagitica -- the rhetorical image and the logical argument are at odds or at least a counterpoint. His means of expression is extremely complex and entirely composed. It's a marvel -- I have no qualms calling the man a genius and I am in awe of his work.<br /><br />The man, himself, doesn't claim my devotion, though. It's similar -- in reverse -- to a comment I came across the other day in the LibraryThing forums, "Lewis is a giant. People like Hemingway. They love Lewis." Milton is on how many "greatest" lists? But how many people love him? I think that's probably a harder question to answer. I've loving Paradise Lost. But I'm also arguing with the theology and with Milton's general perspective in life. Another comment comes to mind, from Chesterton's Chaucer. Chesterton is speaking of Chaucer here:<br /><br />"He was less delirious than Shakespeare, less harsh than Milton, less fanatical than Bunyan, less embittered than Swift."<br /><br />I find Milton harsh and he's definitely an egotist. The two together are a hard pill for me to swallow. Milton is a genius, but he lacks charity. This puts me in an dynamic, but odd and somewhat uncomfortable relationship with his work. The sense of awe isn't diminished, however.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-89299512735714727342010-12-23T17:51:53.989-08:002010-12-23T17:51:53.989-08:00P.S. I meant to cut the Chesterton quote after &qu...P.S. I meant to cut the Chesterton quote after "Swift." The last sentence had no import on my point.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-69253704836769239682010-12-23T16:21:03.136-08:002010-12-23T16:21:03.136-08:00Yes, and I think his honesty in that is part of wh...Yes, and I think his honesty in that is part of what I appreciate so much about his work.Paul Mathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951893912611871578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7793841573292945810.post-73517557331924211572010-12-23T15:36:42.343-08:002010-12-23T15:36:42.343-08:00Lycidas is the first of Milton's poems that I ...Lycidas is the first of Milton's poems that I truly loved. Others are curiosities. And I haven't gone back to read his nativity poem which everyone seems to love, but which left me rather blank. I should do that. But I can't escape the fact that when Milton is ostensibly writing about one thing (say the Nativity or the death of a young poet/priest) he is really writing about something else... mostly himself.Tuirginhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081067215683168015noreply@blogger.com